17: Samuel KingDavis | The Adventure Is the People: An Interview with the caricature artist

Jesper Conrad: 00:00
Today we are together with uh Samuel Davis or Sam, uh which we met in Davis, Samuel King Davis. King King Davis, I love that yeah, yeah. Please, please. Then I would be higher. No, uh let's start right there. That's my real name. Yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 00:27
Seriously, yeah, yeah. We that's actually a good topic, you know, it's self-directed. We made our own last name. It's a combination of our last names, but we combined them when we got married.

Cecilie Conrad: 00:40
To King.

Samuel KingDavis : 00:42
Hers was King, mine was Davis. Now both of our names are King Davis.

Jesper Conrad: 00:47
It's a wonderful name. I would love to finish the introduction. Yeah, sorry.

Cecilie Conrad: 00:54
And why we're having this conversation is kind of interesting.

Jesper Conrad: 00:57
Also important, yes. Yeah. Um, well, we we saw you on a bridge in Prague, uh, and I would love to be able to remember the name of the the bridge, but Samuel King Davis. The Charles Bridge, yes, the big bridge.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:12
The bridge where you go, the tourist bridge, yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 01:16
And and uh you are uh among other things, you draw caricature of people, and I enjoyed standing watching there, and we exchanged contacts. And I've always wanted to do a podcast uh interview with you after that, and now it's finally the time.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:34
It's been a few years since.

Jesper Conrad: 01:35
Yeah, it is it's some years since we met. Uh of different sorts. When I was uh in my early 20s, I met up with a group of break dancers and electro boogie artists with them, but where saw the inner works of working the streets, how do you get in the clients and talk with them and all that? And and I it has just fascinated me ever since. So I love the art, but I also love to see the artist work their part of the that part of the magic.

Cecilie Conrad: 02:14
Marketing.

Jesper Conrad: 02:14
Oh, the marketing part of it.

Cecilie Conrad: 02:16
Yeah, the marketing the reason, another reason is that we uh this is the self-directed podcast, and we tend to talk a lot about unschooling and family life and how to parent, but self-directed is not just that, it's also just to grab hold on your own life and make post that the way you make your living is very far out of the matrix. So we wanted to talk to you about that as well, if if you're willing.

Samuel KingDavis : 02:49
Yeah. Well, the beginning of that came when I was in college. I um well, most of my like late teenage life uh I was working. So the thing in the US is like it's very like work kind of culture. You you start working even when you're like 15. You usually you get some part-time job at a restaurant or something, waiting tables. Um, so I I did that and then I got into sales. So I was working all the way up until college, um, but I was working inside uh sales. So people were calling and I was selling cable, telephone, internet, stuff like that. And I just got to a point where um I kind of uh got more and more professional with that, and I hated it more and more the more I did it because there was a correlation line going on, yeah. Yeah, well, because like I I felt Americans needed more authentic time, they didn't need more cable TV, and that's what I was selling, that's how I made money. So every day I went to work, I was just not I would feel bad. And there was one day I remember I went and I I literally felt like sick to my stomach because I I was doing something that was kind of against my nature, you know. Um, and I would sit in this gray office and I would look outside and there would be sun shining and birds would be playing, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore. So I uh started a hot dog vending business. I was like uh barbecuing, and I had a hot dog cart and I was selling barbecue and hot dogs on the street. So that's kind of how I started on the street, and I got comfortable working around, you know, people who are partying and having fun, and I learned how to kind of manage crowds and manage a business on the street like that. Um, so that's that kind of led in eventually to caricature.

Cecilie Conrad: 04:42
Um there is a gap for me. From hot dogs to caricature drawing? Yeah, there must be something in between or underneath.

Samuel KingDavis : 04:58
Well, the whole time I was uh running the business, I was in college too. So I was uh doing I was studying fine arts, so I already had like a fine arts background. And my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, was working at the zoo and she was painting faces, and she was working next to caricature artists. And at that time, I was I had graduated and I was uh maintaining a studio, so I was like sculpting faces, I was doing uh life casting, so people would lay back and I would pour alginate on their face and cast it, and then I would make a plaster cast of that, and it was like these incredible expressions I was getting. It was like dental grade alginate, so you would get all of the hair and the pores and everything, and I've made these sculptures. So, my so Kate she knew that I was interested in faces and I was interested in personalities and all that, so she said, Well, why don't you try caricatures? They seem to do pretty well at the zoo. So I got the book and kind of practiced a little bit at home, and then when we moved to Prague, um I started doing it on the street for tips. And then so I was busking at first, kind of arguing with the police and kind of doing that whole thing. It was kind of chaotic, and but it was fun, and then eventually I made it to the bridge when that's all legal and legit. So now I now I have like an official position on the bridge. So that's kind of the the story in a nutshell, yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 06:31
Yeah, can we go back to the book? You mentioned it like it's uh the book, the Bible of caricature drawings.

Samuel KingDavis : 06:39
Yeah, yeah. Let's see. And and while you're getting the uh what's that's the book that I originally bought.

Jesper Conrad: 06:47
So there's a magazine of caricature, yeah, yeah. Oh, from the Mad magazine. Uh yeah, yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 06:55
So um when I was a little kid, I would also read Mad Magazine, and you know, the the humor in there when you're a kid and you read that stuff, you kind of know maybe you shouldn't be reading it, but it's funny. You don't know why, you know, it's like kind of raunchy and everything, and you kind of know that maybe if your parents read it, they wouldn't let you read it.

Cecilie Conrad: 07:21
Oh, my parents gave it to me.

Samuel KingDavis : 07:23
Oh yeah. That's probably just like you know, a Protestant Christian kind of conservative background thing. But uh yeah. So anyway, I I really liked the drawings there, and uh but I didn't know who the artist was, I just liked it as a kid, and then later I got this book, and now I actually teach from this book, and I know Tom Richman and everything because I joined the Society of Caricature Artists now, sounds like a secret society. Yeah, yeah. We have to cut our fingers and put the fingers together together.

Cecilie Conrad: 08:03
There is a hat that's the hat, yeah, and a fake novel, obviously.

Jesper Conrad: 08:07
Yeah, yeah. I love that there's a society for caricature draws.

Cecilie Conrad: 08:12
But there's an art, yeah. But that's looked down upon in a way as some kind of under under art, yeah, but it's not. I would still up to having this conversation, yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 08:25
And I have promised I said myself, I oh, I need to read up on the story of caricature because when we were recently in uh Venice and we saw a museum uh the the that had an exhibition uh about character drawings throughout history, and Da Vinci also made character drawing uh paintings.

Cecilie Conrad: 08:44
I thought it wasn't the Da Vinci must say no, no, it was uh one I passed.

Jesper Conrad: 08:49
So so do you know the history? Have you nerded it uh a little?

Samuel KingDavis : 08:55
Uh I knew Da Vinci. I've seen some of his caricatures and his I I mean, he was really exaggerated, like his stuff was pretty rough, he was pretty brutal.

Cecilie Conrad: 09:05
Yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 09:06
Um, so I knew that, but um I know a little bit about some of the history in the US, but um I think the reason it has maybe a bad right reputation is because there's a lot of people because some people take advantage of the fact that people don't know a lot about art and the the mechanics of art and like what it should look like and what the proper proportions are and all of that. Um, so people go out and they draw caricatures when they're really just like scratching, scratching whatever they can come up with. Um, and that's maybe more prevalent than like real professional caricature artist. Because in the US, it's you know, there's professional caricature artists everywhere, but in Europe, it's more like, oh, this guy from Bulgaria is 68 years old and he's drawing caricatures, but he has never had any training, you know. So that's I think kind of what taints the reputation of it.

Jesper Conrad: 10:08
There's this question I have about caricatural drawings, which is um I would like to love to talk to you about you looking at people's personalities and how you drag that out through um um through the drawing. But my first question is how do you not how do you make sure to not hurt them? Because uh it there's a fine there must be a fine art. Uh in fine line. Yeah, yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 10:40
It's a funny question because there's different, like depending on like in the US, for example, there's different crews. There's uh there's one crew called the um California Boys, is what they're called. I don't think they even work in California. I don't know why they have that name, but they they're notorious for beasting people, so they they really turn you. I mean, I have an example of me, my wife, and my dog. I'll show you right here.

Jesper Conrad: 11:08
Wonderful. I would I would love to see.

Samuel KingDavis : 11:11
I mean, these are all like actual drawings, so I can't show you digitally, but okay, okay. But you know, it has our likeness, like when people see that that's my wife, you know, people recognize her and they recognize me too, even though it's quite abstracted, you know.

Cecilie Conrad: 11:30
Yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 11:31
So um, so yeah, I mean, it depends on the the camp. There's certain there's certain people or certain crews that they draw

Samuel KingDavis : 11:42
cuticatures, is what basically caricature artists call that, where you just have a uh, you know, five or ten sets of eyes in your memory, and five or ten sets of mouths or mouths and nose, and you kind of like use these templates. Um, and you can draw really fast like that, and people will line up a mile long like that, and you'll make tons of money doing that. But again, it's like kind of eating away at your soul because you're not really expressing anything, you're just using this template, you know. Um, so that that's kind of a fine line. Um, well, for me, it it's not a fine line, but it it can be. It depends on what your motivation is as an artist. Like I was actually thinking about this yesterday because I made some really extreme ones, and I the customers loved it and everyone loved it. So I thought, okay, maybe on Saturday when I have a line a mile long, I'll draw like faster and just more cute. And then on the slower days, I'll take my time and really push it, you know. So um, but yeah, that is, I think that is the biggest kind of obstacle um to becoming a real, like to really mastering caricature. That's the obstacle right there for me, is like how how much can I tolerate people not liking it? Because people are definitely not gonna like it, probably 25% of the time if I draw like that, you know.

Cecilie Conrad: 13:20
So in a way, if you line up for a caricature, you're not I mean it's not a photo shoot with filters to make your lips bigger. I mean, it's it's different. So, in a way, I thought if you want to buy this service with your face being grown by a caricature artist, then you should be ready for ready to go to hate. Yeah. So, but I think another interesting question is you said to draw out the personality. So, how is how is how do you see the link between how our faces look and who we are?

Samuel KingDavis : 14:04
Um I did want to say one more thing about the the offensive thing before I answer that. And it's about I don't remember where I heard this. I think it was a lecture from a graphic designer, but what he said was like we are the style makers. So the artists are the ones that determine like what the trend is, what the style is. So it's not really on the customer to make a decision of like what the caricature should look like. It's the artist's responsibility to do that and to inform people, you know, what the new trend and the new style is. So that's something that I remind myself when I really am trying to push it. And often what I find is that when I push it, I'm attracting the customers that I want. I'm attracting the people that are like fun and they want to experience something wacky and and crazy. Um and it's really interesting. Like for the very first caricature that I draw, if I'm drawing from a photo, then I'll get a line of people who want me to draw from a photo. Or if I draw a really cute boy, you know, as Spider-Man or something, then I get a line of kids that want to be drawn like Spider-Man or Ballerina or whatever. And if I draw totally crazy and like LSD, like mind melting images, then people want that, you know. So it's it's kind of yeah, it's it's kind of my decision. I guess I look at it as a as a professional artist to make that call, you know.

Jesper Conrad: 15:37
So depending on the mood you're in in the morning, uh you can decide say, oh, today I just want to draw Spider-Man voice, I just have the big one up there.

Samuel KingDavis : 15:49
I don't usually decide like that. I just I it, you know, if a customer comes and asks for that, or if I if someone asks for a photo and I do that, then I'll start. Then I always get a line like that. Or if I put something on my board, like I had Rick and Morty, I did a drawing of Rick and Morty on my board, and then everyone wanted to be drawn like Rick and Morty, you know. So I just I have to be careful about what I put on the board and what drawings that I do, you know, depending on like the mood that I'm in that day. But to answer your question about the personality and the the um like what I decide to draw on the face, that's uh there's not like a a clear-cut line on that, but I think that once with anything that you master, like when you get to a point where you've done it a thousand times in a thousand different ways, it becomes more intuitive. And then that kind of intuition can be translated to the page. Of course, I'm looking at facial features um and like the proportions of the face, but I'm also more so looking at like what the expression is. Like uh the other day there was a guy who sat down and he when he sat down, his neck was kind of like he he was sitting like this, and his neck was long and it was like turned like this. Yeah, and then he had this kind of expression on his face, and then you know, the wife had a different expression. So I drew just just like that. Uh I don't really like to pose people too much unless their face is really, there's nothing that really stands out, and they're not smiling at all, and it's a very dull look they have on their face. But most of the time I try to talk and see kind of like this, like how their voice sounds, um, kind of like how their posture is, how their body is sitting, what the you know, some people are just naturally more bulky, some people are more wiry. So I try to take all of that information in before I even start drawing.

Jesper Conrad: 17:52
But but how long is a session uh from you into contact with a person to the finished drawing? I know the exact drawing is maybe a couple of minutes only, but but there is this interaction before where you talk and study them.

Samuel KingDavis : 18:07
Um not long. I don't have much time. So I I try to do I try to get them to say something also, because if if they're if they kind of like talk, they have that kind of voice, then I know I can draw their chin. And another thing that's interesting that and actors do this too, where you mimic it's an empathy thing in the brain, and you mimic like what you see, like how that person is moving or smiling, and your face kind of mimics that, and then I'm able to somehow translate that onto the page too. So it's about like empathy too, I think. Uh and and I did do that automatically. I I was actually doing that automatically for the first couple of years, and then I I heard I went to a convention for caricature artists, and someone was talking about that about method acting, like how actors actually do that to to take on the character more and how we could use that in caricature. And I was like, oh my god, I already do that automatically. My my brain automatically kind of like empathizes and and and tries to mimic what the person is doing. And by that, like when I if someone has a strange smile and I like notice myself kind of smiling like that, it's easier for me to easier for that to go from here through the hand on the page, you know. Yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 19:45
They had a take out of control they were called, they had a street show called The Flying Horses. I saw it so many times that I saw the the tips and tricks. And and later we met a guy in uh Barcelona when I talked about I talked with him about the how they got the money. And he said, Oh, that's what we call a contract with the with the audience. Their their uh line was uh our show is your show and your money is our money, and then people laugh and they go around with the hat and and comes in, and and this guy in Barcelona, he had another uh saying, but you're just sitting there, so you you uh you don't really have to go out and do a lot of things. So, how do you market yourself? Is it just a stand, or do you sometimes need to go out and ask people? How does it work?

Samuel KingDavis : 20:36
Well, there's a couple parts about that. The first part is um in the high season, there's almost no work that needs to be done because there's just so many people on the bridge, and so many people are in the travel mood and they want souvenirs. So I almost I almost don't even look at people because that's 30,000 people, you know, I don't want to look at that many faces all day every day. So sometimes I'll just read a book and wait for people to approach me because it's overwhelming. But in the slower times, what I've been doing lately is I just if I notice um some people standing on the bridge just kind of hanging out, I'll go over and I'll just do one for free. I'll just say, hey, look, it's better for me to draw and I want to warm up, so I'll do one for free. And then, you know, hopefully I'll get some customers like that. And most of the time people are happy to do that. And then it's by the performance that people can see what's happening that they're like, oh, that's amazing. I want one of those. And then they line up like that. So that's one way I market. I start doing the demos, and then I have to have crowd control too. So if I if I'm drawing someone and I notice there's people kind of like piling up behind me, I really need to turn around and say, Hey, this one's gonna take this long, and this so you'll be waiting an hour, but it or if you You want to come back in 45 minutes, I can draw you then. I try to like line up the time as much as I can, kind of uh improvisational style, and that helps to keep the the flow going. Yeah. Um, but

Samuel KingDavis : 22:17
there is something interesting that happened that I'll share with you actually the last day that I worked, Monday. So I had a couple from the UK sit down and they said, Yeah, we love caricature, we follow these caricature artists on TikTok. And um and I said, Well, okay, well, what's the guy's name? And they said, Oh, Sebastian Martin. And I said, Well, I know him. I was hanging out with him three months ago. And he draws really crazy and really exaggerated and and really uh beautifully as well. Like he really spends the time to make sure the color is nice and saturated and everything. And I realized at that moment, because I have a few caricature artist friends that have millions of followers on on TikTok and hundreds of thousands on Instagram. And she said, Yeah, we really like it crazy. And I realized in that moment, like these my friends are influencing what the world thinks about caricature. Ah, yes, of course. And and I made a really crazy one. I spent a lot of time on it, and I exaggerate, I made sure the color saturation was good and everything. And at that moment, I decided, like, okay, first off, I'm gonna go ahead and cave in and download TikTok, which I've been resistant to it forever. And also, like now this summer, I'm just gonna spend the time, I'm gonna really make these, you know, like if the world is watching, I need to make sure that I'm doing the adequate best I can do. Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 23:49
So on TikTok, I don't know much about TikTok. Is it like videos of drawing them or is it photos of the drawings? Or what does it kind of like to make?

Samuel KingDavis : 24:04
Um they're videos, it's all video based, and um usually it started off with like dancing, like teenagers were dancing, yeah. Yeah, the reason I was resistant toward it is because it's a a Chinese app, and there was a lot of there a lot of information gathering just funneled right back into the Chinese government. And you can get a dummy phone just for your TikTok, maybe. Well, the good thing about the iPhone is that you can change you can really like set a lot of privacy settings. So I went through and downloaded again. The first time I tried to download it, it said, Can we have access to all the information on your phone? And if you say no, you can't download this. And I said, Okay, well, I'm not gonna download it. This time I would made it better. Yeah, that's this time when I went back in, though, it wasn't it. I had like a lot more options, so I'm happy.

Jesper Conrad: 25:00
Um but would it be a barrier for working with the crowd that you ask if you can share the work you do of them on TikTok and you would need to have a stand there for you while you're drawing? Do you think people would mind you sharing the caricature of them?

Samuel KingDavis : 25:17
I do that now um already with Instagram. So if I record their reaction, yeah, um, I ask if I can share it on Instagram. And most people are I I don't think anyone's well, only a couple people have said no, but mostly people are okay with that. Yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 25:35
I I uh I have uh a question, maybe it's fun, but what did you wanted to do when you grew up? Uh when you were like in your teens, because now I I hear uh selling cable, hot dun stand, and uh ending up doing caricature drawings, and you you came from finding the odds uh kind of. Did you have anything about then?

Cecilie Conrad: 25:60
Did you have a plan?

Samuel KingDavis : 26:01
I think I I think I always wanted to be an artist. Uh I didn't really know what that looked like or what that meant. I had the typical like studio artist idea in my mind when I was in college. Um and I think the entrepreneurial thing comes from my mother because my my mom raised me and my brother like totally on her own, basically, totally on her own. And um she would she was cleaning houses for wealthy people in wealthy neighborhoods. So she would drive around. This was like pre-internet, basically, she would drive around and put flyers in everyone's mailbox. She would just stop, flyer, stop, flyer, all these rich neighborhoods. And she built a business like that on her own. So for me, I knew another thing about her too is that anytime I would say I can't do something, she would say, No, we don't use that in this house. So you never say I can't. Like you can do anything that you want to do as long as you work for it, you know. So that kind of like instilled this entrepreneurial attitude, I think, which is like, okay, I'm just gonna do it on my own. I don't need to, I don't need this company to help me or whatever, I can just figure it out by myself. So that's I think what a big part of what led into like where I'm at right now.

Jesper Conrad: 27:22
I keep uh for people listening to the podcast, then uh there are two dolls in the background. You can see it on YouTube, and we will also put it in the image, but I need to ask about them. Do you also work with dolls?

Samuel KingDavis : 27:34
Uh puppets when I came to Prague, I uh I took the Puppets in Prague workshop, it's like an international workshop, an internationally known workshop with puppet masters here in Prague, and they just teach you how to make the traditional Czech puppets. So this is like my famous When I'm Dead podcast background, which I don't do the podcast anymore, but since both of my puppets, this is like a double version of me, and then this is like just a a skeleton that I made.

Jesper Conrad: 28:08
And you made them yourself, the puppets, yeah, with the help of the puppet masters. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Have you tried working them on the streets, making shows with them?

Samuel KingDavis : 28:18
Are you yeah, yeah, but it wasn't it wasn't so good. I was surprised they didn't get more attention, actually. Yeah, because they're they're really especially this one over here, that one's like really beautifully sculpted. That was the second one, so it was much better than the first one I made. But yeah, I don't know. People just aren't interested, I guess, or they're not they're not so blown away by it, you know.

Jesper Conrad: 28:42
No, and I've I've seen some puppet shows, and I I as I said, I really love almost every form of street art. So and I love standing dance, uh watching the craftsman shift of it. And it's not everybody who on seems to understand in the crowd uh how much skill set goes into moving the fingers correctly on the puppets and stuff like that.

Samuel KingDavis : 29:03
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that that's I think that maybe that's part of it. I also didn't have much time to to really practice the show or make a show. I just went out and tried a few times.

Samuel KingDavis : 29:17
But I think when you try something and you really give it an effort and you can't you can't do it very well, and then you see someone else do it really well, you appreciate it a lot more. Like I used to try to skate and I never got that good, but now when I watch skaters, I appreciate it way more because it's I know how complicated it is. Um, and I think that everyone has like tried to draw, you know, most people have like put the effort into draw something and they see how hard it is. Um, most people don't know anything about puppets, or if they played with a puppet, it was a real easy hand puppet, and they're like, Oh, yeah, I could do that, and they just walk right past it, you know. But when they see me like capturing a face in three minutes, it's like, whoa, really impressive, you know. It is crazy. I'm super fascinated by it still.

Cecilie Conrad: 30:07
Still is fascinating. I mean, we have the circuses because people like to look at people who are really good at something. It is fascinating when someone is really proficient, so it makes sense.

Samuel KingDavis : 30:20
It's but it's just like anything else. I think that there's a there's a like a magical thing that people have in their minds. Like most people say, Oh, it's this gift that you're born with, it's this talent that you're born with, and I just don't believe in that at all, you know. But like I was interested in art, so I was willing to practice, but it was the practice that got me able to do that. I mean, my first 500 drawings, let's say, were pretty terrible, you know. I mean, from an artist perspective, they're they're terrible, you know. So yeah, it's just it's just about training.

Cecilie Conrad: 30:56
Yeah, we usually we say that a lot in our family. Two things I want to mention before before you talked about this, you know, how you appreciate things you've tried because you know how hard it is. We usually say no effort is ever wasted. Whatever you learn will always in some way give you some kind of new experience or advantage, and trying to play the saxophone, let's say, and figuring out how hard it is, you really appreciate the music afterwards. It's the same thing, it's not a waste that you took like three months of trying to master an instrument and you never learned. And uh that's exactly what you're saying. And we also say that's another learning journey thing. We also say very often, whatever you practice, you will become good at it. It's it's like everything, just invest the hours and you will grow. No one, no one was proficient uh at making caricature drawings the first time they did it. You have to do it 500 times before you like really. So that's just the stamina.

Samuel KingDavis : 31:60
And well, the cool thing about that is it all feeds into other things too. Like, if you get really good at one thing, then that feeds into other things that you do. So it's there's like a meta level of mastering something that helps you to master really anything that you do. And like Kate is doing macrome now, and but she's also before that was doing. Sorry, I need to macro.

Cecilie Conrad: 32:27
It's like you you tie knots on it's it's not crocheted because it's actually tying knots and you make like bags and yes, lamps and it like holds a plant.

Samuel KingDavis : 32:40
It comes.

Jesper Conrad: 32:41
Yes, I understand it now.

Cecilie Conrad: 32:42
You know what it is.

Jesper Conrad: 32:43
I know what it is, it was just the the the official term I didn't uh recognize.

Samuel KingDavis : 32:48
And she's been she's been a master of cooking and baking for a long time now. So, and that's what I was uh speaking with her about is you know, all of those things come together. Like if you if you get really good at macrame, that's gonna make your cooking better. And like it all kind of it's like an exponential kind of growth, I think.

Cecilie Conrad: 33:07
Yes, spirals in a way. Yeah, I agree.

Jesper Conrad: 33:11
One one thing I find fascinated when uh choosing to speak with an artist like you on our podcast is when we normally talk with people who unschool or believe in unschooling or self-directed learning, in people's mind, and also maybe in my mind before, uh learning was something done in school. Uh, and there is almost this uh I I I will now call it a stigma, but in my world, misunderstanding that oh, if you want to be good at something, you need to find an education to do it. Where I hear you telling you at some point your wife, uh back then girlfriend suggested, what about character drawing? And you went and found a book, and now it's uh a big part of your living. Yeah, yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 33:57
This is my whole living. Yeah, that's that's my definitely my 99% of the money I earn comes from that, yeah.

Jesper Conrad: 34:05
Yeah, and and it came from picking up a Mad Max books and just drawing, drawing, and drawing. But it's it's yeah, I fascinates me that people think, oh, I need to be, I want at one point when uh somebody says, I want this profession, we all send them through schools, but if they want to be an artist, we just think they can do it somehow. Um, so then you can say exactly uh you want to be uh a carpenter, then you need to go to school. Um it's weird.

Samuel KingDavis : 34:36
Well, the school system, you guys probably know more about this than I do, but you know, there was the the famous line by Rockefeller who said, you know, we want a nation of workers, not thinkers. And he was one of the architects of the original school system in the, I guess, the turn of the century. And basically it was really based on the Ford Motor Company model of assembly line, you know. So it's like, okay, they all go to this class, this grade, they all go to this class, that grade. And it's like, okay, we need mathematics and we need like the basic kind of understanding, but you don't need to do it that way, you know, you don't need to do it in the where you're like being trained to sit down for eight hours a day. I mean, I think we can all agree that that's just not natural for most kids, you know, to sit down for that long. Um, and that's really not how real learning happens anyway. Sorry.

Cecilie Conrad: 35:32
I'm just saying that probably not natural for anyone to sit down and obey someone else's idea of what they should spend their time doing for eight to ten hours a day. It's not even just the eight hours in school because then there's the homework and and some schools can have like play groups and and they have this social, I call it social fascism, like they they try to intervene with what people do in their so-called free time.

Samuel KingDavis : 35:59
Yeah, yeah, it's it's there's also a regurgitation of information. I think that's the the big part about school that is that's the word I don't know.

Cecilie Conrad: 36:08
Regurgitation. What is that?

Samuel KingDavis : 36:10
It's like oh to repeat send you this information, it's like okay, here's the raw information, and then tomorrow we're gonna have a test, and you have to like keep it in your memory for long enough and to write it down, and then once you write it down, it's it's gone, you know.

Jesper Conrad: 36:25
Yeah, and that's obviously not how people learn. Absolutely not. I'm uh the still have more questions about the character chilling, uh yeah, yeah. With which is how much of a seasonal work is it? Uh can you work the whole year round? Is is the bridge uh so popular that that worked?

Samuel KingDavis : 36:50
You could, but it's weather dependent, you know. So basically, I take I take January, like mid-January, January 15th to January, February, March, till about March 15th. So I take about two months completely off. Yeah. Um the uh I wish I could have more work in the winter, but I actually just started uh the event booking agency now. So now when companies want artists, like I have an agency that books artists around Europe for those events. Um we just finally got that off the ground. But even that's you know, a lot of the events are requested in my high season. So I'm just sending other artists there because I can't really do it anyway. Um, but you know, the the work in June, July, August. I mean, I'm working so many hours a week that I kind of need those two months to rest, you know, in the winter. Uh it's tricky because you have to you have to kind of you still have to sleep and you still have to eat and like have some day off. So I take Wednesdays off. Um, but it it you get burnt out really easily. And the another interesting thing, speaking of marketing, but let's call it like emotional marketing uh or like intuitive emotional marketing, is like when I take a break and I go into nature and spend time with the family, or we go to the beach for three days or something, and then I come back. Um my business is just crazy. It's way better because people can feel my mood. They can feel that I'm in a good mood and I'm talking and I'm engaging. When I'm burnt out, I'm just you know, I'm staring at my phone or I'm reading a book, I'm like not interested in it, you know.

Cecilie Conrad: 38:47
Probably not be there. So, how do you handle it? I've been to the bridge and I've been to many other really tourist crowded places as we travel full time. And obviously, I enjoy visiting these highlight places in Europe. You want to see the Eiffel Tower and you want to see whatever. Um, but I find the mass tourism can be a little it's overwhelming, and obviously I'm there as a tourist, so I can't judge the others for being there. We all want to see it, but at the same time, I I really feel exhausted emotionally or I don't even energetically in a way after spending just one day in these mass tourist places, even if I'm happy, like even if I'm supposed we were we were just in Rome for Easter. Obviously, there was a hundred thousand million trillion people there, and obviously it's Roman Easter, and we even went to hear the Pope speech, just like everyone else. And I'm happy doing it, and I'm happy all the others got the chance. But when I I hit the pillow at night, I am like almost shaking with exhaustion from just being around so many people and all of their vibes and all of their

Cecilie Conrad: 40:06
moods, and yeah, how do you master sitting on that bridge?

Samuel KingDavis : 40:11
Think about think about it like this. If you're if you have trained your brain to instantly analyze faces, think about it like that. So that and that's that analysis is happening, you know, 10,000 times a day. It's like, oh, that's why I can't even look. I just have to look at my book. And then if someone comes, I say, okay, have a seat, and then I turn my back to the crowd. So I think that I I always when I because speaking of self-directed learning, I've always been fascinated with human behavior. Maybe it's the sales background that got me interested, but psychology and sociology and how people make decisions. Um and yeah, uh, I don't know exactly. I lost my point. Where was I going with that? I just looking at analyzing them. Yeah. I just find it really oh, that's what I was gonna say. I find it fascinating to like watch uh crowd behavior and like human behavior depending on the weather and what day of week it is, and and and that um kind of thing. So um wow, I lost my point again. See, I keep going on the side and I keep losing my point.

Jesper Conrad: 41:32
Um, it's okay, but isn't it hard? Well, I think the ticket's question is how hard is it?

Cecilie Conrad: 41:38
How do you handle it? And now that you've talked about a little bit, I think one big difference is that you're at the same place all the time. So you have seen the bridge before. It's not like you're overwhelmed with the context, it's just the amount. My question was the amount of people. Is it do you have do you have some kind of filter or like what do they call it? Like horse field, they have the superheroes? Some kind of bubble you can you said you'd turn your back into the cloud. It's smart, yeah. It's just get some sort of I don't know.

Samuel KingDavis : 42:10
Some space or some kind of like pseudo-privacy or something, but it's a lot of hours in a big crowd.

Cecilie Conrad: 42:18
That's just what I thought.

Samuel KingDavis : 42:19
Uh what I was gonna say, and now I remember, is that when I when I look and study human behavior, I I always lately have been thinking like, how does this relate to human evolution? Like, what what how is this behavior connected to something that we exhibited when we were like hunter-gatherers or like before civilization?

Cecilie Conrad: 42:42
I would be very interested in the answer to that.

Samuel KingDavis : 42:45
Well, I mean, I have only my theory, which is that you know, we we used to live, like when you look at tribal societies, they only live with 60 people top six, maybe 80 people. Yeah, and usually once they get to like 100, 120, they break off and they form a different tribe. So I think evolutionarily, like looking at a hundred thousand people a week is like pretty uh we're just not evolved for that. You know, it's like really hard to process that amount because you know, we don't know the people, they're strangers. They, you know, deep down in our limbic system, they might be a threat. So we have to like analyze, make sure they're not carrying any weapons. Yeah, like I think all that happens below the conscious level. So, yeah, I mean, I really it's really important for my energy and really important for my just psychological health to create that bubble. And that that really just comes from like taking an hour break. Sometimes I'll walk over to the park and just lay in the grass, you know, with my shirt off. I'll just lay in the grass barefoot and just like connect with grounding, or I'll go to a place that's that I know is quiet and I'll have like a quiet coffee and just by myself. Um, and if I'm on the bridge and I really Gotta stay there. I'll just uh I'll I'll read or I'll try to get a customer so I can turn my back to the massive crowd that's like constantly flowing behind me.

Jesper Conrad: 44:11
So yeah. So you place if I remember it correctly, uh you when you draw, you have your back against the crowd. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's why how it works. So people can see the person and see your progress, uh, and then in enjoy the progress being made, but you don't need to face them. No, no, no. I'm just I find it fascinating. Uh, how can you switch it off, or are you looking at me with a big nose and a bigger beard?

Cecilie Conrad: 44:40
Uh big beautiful lashes.

Samuel KingDavis : 44:46
I think I can switch it off like consciously, you know. But it's it's always, you know, my my brain is just trained like that, so it's uh it's always I could always just draw it, you know.

Jesper Conrad: 45:00
Yeah, I was just imagining you walking around at a party and you see everybody like Roger Rabbit characters and just laughing silently inside.

Cecilie Conrad: 45:10
But our profession, yeah, they they shape us, like you can't switch off the marketing guy thinking about how people work crowds and how they sell things and how you could upgrade, and how and I can't switch off my reading of people and you do marketing. He doesn't really think about a psychologist, and I can't not be a psychologist for two hours. Obviously, I need emotions, and I the empathy is always open, and I listen to all these. I'm not like working or trying to analyze, but I obviously it's part of who I am, that's what I know. It's my filter.

Samuel KingDavis : 45:52
So that's the you're measuring it through the framework of everything that you learned before that.

Cecilie Conrad: 45:58
You can't unlearn it.

Jesper Conrad: 45:60
So, for example, if we are if we are in a big crowd, uh, and somebody maybe is not in the best mentally stable situation in their life, it's easier for me to shut it out, the the energy they have than for Cecilia's.

Cecilie Conrad: 46:15
She can be drained afterwards because it's like this radio signal, it just goes on and on, and it's maybe not my maybe I could be, let's say, at a wedding in a very formal situation. I'm just a wedding guest, and I clearly see that someone in the crowd is struggling, but I'm I'm not there to interfere, or or it's not my place to do anything about it. But I see the problem, especially with like the real heavy stuff like psychosis, I feel it coming. It it's almost like a sensation. I know it's there, and it's a little hard for me to handle. Um, and I can't switch that off. I will feel it for the entire duration of that party. I'll know it's there, and when I come back, I'll be exhausted. And obviously, I just read I read the situation with my glasses on. That's just like you'll be an artist wherever you go, and you will see the world from your perspective. Our profession becomes part of how we how we can even uh perceive the world around us. There are some things I I just don't notice them at all because I have no idea. Like some people know what cars are driving by. They could say it's a BMW, whatever. I I can say it's blue.

Samuel KingDavis : 47:32
I wouldn't know. And there's this there's this quote that uh that this makes me think of, and I think it was Lao Tso, the guy who wrote the art of war. It doesn't really matter who it was, maybe Confucius, but the quote was the highest form of intelligence is objective observation. I actually think the real quote was the highest form of intelligence is observation, but I guess I added the word objective in there because if we are observing through our filter, it's not real objective observation. And for me, this has been really important. Um, I did a meditation retreat, a vipassana meditation for 16 days I was there, and um that really gave me, I feel like a superpower, I guess, where I'm able to observe the feeling without attaching to the feeling, and I'm able to name what what it is, and I can um I can still be affected by it, but I can kind of keep it over here, or I have some kind of observational power over it.

Cecilie Conrad: 48:43
Is it your feeling or the feeling you observe in someone else? You're talking about now.

Samuel KingDavis : 48:50
Um well, what I my feeling like if I observe something and then I get a feeling from that, I can say, Oh, uh concern, concern, concern. You know, that's the meditation teaches you to name it three times.

Cecilie Conrad: 49:03
I know, I know, yeah.

Samuel KingDavis : 49:04
Anxiety, anxiety, anxiety. And then I have a choice. Like, do I want to engage with this anxiety or do I want to, or how do I want to handle this? You know, am I responsible for this anxiety? Or you you know what I mean? I have a moment where I can actually choose as opposed to just reacting.

Cecilie Conrad: 49:22
I think the very interesting thing it learn teaches us to meditate is exactly this distance between being, like pure existence, and then all the things that are going on that I'm here regardless of what emotion I have. I'm here regardless of my thoughts, I'm here regardless of whatever perception I would have, hear, see, feel, smell. Uh, I'm just here. And there's there is something we tend to think that we are what we feel or what we perceive or what is going on, and that exactly enslaves us in a way to to the physical existence. Whereas if we meditate just I learned to do it in 60 seconds when I had four small children, I realized I don't have half an hour, I never have half an hour. That's enough. I need to learn to do this like this, like in two breaths, and I because that's what I'll get. So I I train, I call it the 60 second fix. Uh, but if I can make that distance, then I everything just flows because then I'm I'm me here in pure existence, and I ex to exactly say I can engage with what because what's going on, but it's not pushing me around because I'm here and I hold the the what's that called?

Samuel KingDavis : 50:48
The wheel. The wheel, yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 50:50
Sorry, my lane.

Samuel KingDavis : 50:51
Yeah, you're you're big enough, you're big enough because if you're if our consciousness is really not our consciousness, it's just consciousness.

Cecilie Conrad: 51:00
Yeah, agree.

Samuel KingDavis : 51:01
If we really tune into that and we can observe things from from a state of consciousness, we can experience that feeling, but we can also experience this feeling and that feeling, and we're big enough for all of it. So and we don't have to attach to any specific one. So that's another thing that that helped uh with what we're talking about as far as like how we're observing the world through these filters. When I when I see something and I I can recognize that as oh, I'm seeing it from that perspective because I grew up this way and because I have this training, and that's why I'm but I don't need to react to that, you know. I can observe that, but that's that's not who I am. I am consciousness, yeah, just being experienced through this vessel, you know. Yeah, so anyway, that's my spiritual perspective.

Cecilie Conrad: 51:54
Well, I totally agree with it. I'm on it, I'm on with you.

Jesper Conrad: 51:57
I I have a question about the um when we met you on the bridge uh and talked a little with you. I was like, oh, he speaks uh good English from a guy from Prague.

Cecilie Conrad: 52:09
That's how smart.

Jesper Conrad: 52:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very smart. No, but but how did uh how did the Czech Republic happen uh for you and your wife? Why uh why did have you ended up there?

Samuel KingDavis : 52:22
Yeah, that was kind of a random choice. We I studied in Vienna and I fell in love with it, but this thing happened where I I I really intended to just live in Vienna, but I had to come home to graduate and finish all my thesis and all that stuff. Um, so whenever that was finished, I had already kind of gotten comfortable back in my home city. I got back in my bubble, you know. And I'm like, oh, I've traveled to in in Italy and Vienna. Ah, that's okay, I'll just stay in St. Louis. And uh Kate and I watched a special about a couple who they had a baby, I think at one year old, and they traveled the world with that baby, and it was a TED talk. And yeah, I said, Well, what do you what do you think about that? And she said, Okay, let's do it. So we saved our money for a year. We like arranged everything for a year, saved our money, and then got married and just moved to Prague. And we picked Prague because it was in Central Europe, it wasn't Vienna, but it was in Central Europe, and they had an English teaching program, a certification to teach English here, and we knew we needed a job if we were gonna be like living and working abroad, and yeah, so we both did that program, and I tried the teaching thing and didn't like it. And I had already been practicing caricature, so uh, and then Kate just kept teaching. So, and then at one point she was doing these spray paint uh planets. Have you ever seen the people do this real fast spray paint planets? She was getting really good at that, actually. That was I was really impressed with where she how like her progress on that, but they banned all street art in Prague, so like in Old Town Square, there were like jugglers and musicians and magicians and circus acts and artists, and they banned all of it. So she had to go back to teaching English.

Cecilie Conrad: 54:20
Shame on them.

Jesper Conrad: 54:21
Yeah, that that's sad because we just enjoyed it.

Cecilie Conrad: 54:25
I could do with less of the spray painters, yeah. It is not that I don't appreciate it, it's just we went it's everywhere, and it's the same thing. Would be nice with some jugglers and and some magicians and just some other painters in the streets. It seems like they're taking over, and maybe they're making really good money. I don't know.

Samuel KingDavis : 54:45
You probably saw that in Rome, yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 54:47
Yeah, in Rome, we saw it in we saw it everywhere. We saw it in Rome. No, in Palermo as well, and in Naples, but it was in Rome.

Jesper Conrad: 54:58
There was two guys right next to each other, and yeah, yeah, it was I think I saw those same guys, yeah, yeah, and then they swirled the bottle and little fire and stuff like that. I do enjoy it's a lot of spray paint and not too much other no, but one of them did a thing where I was almost offended on the customer side. She bought, you know, the uh Colosseum, and uh before she had put it in her bag, he just took out another one, finished, and placed it exactly the same. And I was like, ah, you need to give him them time to enjoy that they have bought this special one, it's unique and it was not unique at all, but it is a living, and it's still their crowd uh pleasers.

Cecilie Conrad: 55:47
I 100% appreciate someone makes their own living from doing something they like doing. I just wonder what's underneath the whole system of street artists. How do you get uh legalized? How do you handle the police? Because there must be other artists out there who can do other things than spray paint. And I see very rarely the caricature. There was one in Rome though, yeah. There was one.

Jesper Conrad: 56:17
Um back when there was these guys, yeah, yeah, it was just uh gray. Uh it was not amazing.

Samuel KingDavis : 56:24
Yeah, you know, when I was in Rome, they had uh uh I always look for caricature artists on the street when I go, and I found there was like it looked like maybe some Chinese guys or something. And uh I went, I looked at their board, and they had a drawing of my friend's artwork on their board. It was his painting. Oh and I go, and then I saw how he was drawing. I'm like, no, absolutely no way he drew any of these paintings on the board. Because first off, I know two of the images by heart. I know one guy who made it personally. Yeah, and I go, I go, that's a really good painting. Did you make that? He goes, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sit down, sit down, sit down. Like, no, thanks. And then I showed my friend, you know, that's another thing about being connected in the caricature community, is they'll they'll share stuff like that. Like the the same guy who whose artwork got stolen in Rome, he posted a picture a month or two after that of him like with his arm around an artist that stole his artwork, like on the board, you know. So that's a common thing, you know. Even one guy on the bridge has a drawing still up by Tom Richman, the guy who wrote that book.

Jesper Conrad: 57:35
So that's unfair. That is that's fake marketing. That's not okay.

Samuel KingDavis : 57:42
Yeah, it's not not cool, but but yeah, the the thing about um back to the point of mastery, you know, there's people who figure out like just about what they need to sell the thing, and then they just stop there and they just stay at that point forever. And I think that that's what well, I saw that on the street actually before Kate started doing spray painting. We both went to school for fine arts. So uh I said, you know, these guys are making these spray things, but they're they're really not that good. They're just like it's like a parlor trick. I said you you could definitely do better than that because she trained painting, you know. Um, so she was really making these incredible compositions and everything and unique stuff. It wasn't just like templates, you know, each one was unique. And yeah, but but yeah, you see that on the street, especially with caricature artists, you know, and it's not a judgment on them, it's just you know, it's just easy to fall into that trap. Like, why would you try to change and get better? Why would you risk a customer's not liking it to in order to grow if they're buying it all the time? You know, the market is kind of like determining their art.

Jesper Conrad: 58:54
I think that's the difference between making money and making art, or or just have this inner inner drive to grow and get better and learn.

Cecilie Conrad: 59:06
I still appreciate people who work the street and remember the jazz trio we saw in Rome? They clearly they played for 10-15 minutes each place, they kept playing, you know, going back to things people would recognize, and they had this whole show going on that was very efficient, but it was very nice music, and I think it's so much better than I don't know, giving up at least these people they're doing something for the money. I actually enjoy the music, even though it's not maybe the most amazing jazz music I ever heard in my life. I walk the street, I recognize something, it's nice music, sunshiny. So I I don't want to be judgmental, I will say it's not fine arts, it's not very creative. And as I stayed in the same place for 10 days, I heard the same music many times. Uh but still these I like the initiative, that's what I'm trying to say. And I like I don't mind the pleasing because it is a big crowd of tourists, they're there to enjoy, they didn't buy a jazz music ticket and sat down to you know have a jazz experience. They just walk the street. So maybe in the same way, some of the caricature drawers or the spray painters who do the same thing over and over, they make a great show, but but people enjoy that show. Yeah, so who am I to judge? I don't really want to judge it. I I I can see the difference between fine art and a show. Yeah, but a show is not a bad thing. Pickpocketing is a bad thing.

Samuel KingDavis : 01:00:46
That is uh that is a hard like that is uh like um a challenge or a struggle that I've had because I trained in fine arts and I know about art history and I know all these amazing artists that that don't do caricatures, they're painters or portrait artists or whatever, and then I'm on the street and I'm like making a funny face. But I think I've always went into that. I've always like went into a good funny face. A good funny face, thank you. Um but I've always had the attitude of like this is a uh fine art. Like at first, when I was doing it, I thought, oh, this is just kind of like a maybe like a trick. I I knew the the significance of caricature and magazines and political caricatures and all that, so I knew that it had some significance. But uh yeah, I guess I kind of thought when I when I was beginning and looking at my drawings, I'm like, oh, these are crap. This is just like a parlor trick. Maybe eventually I'll get into a gallery or eventually I'll be a political cartoonist. And then when I joined the International Society and met all these amazing people, amazing artists, I'm like, this is actually a real fine art, you know. Like if I can make an amazing painting in 30 minutes of these two people and it's funny and humorous and and creative, then that like that's really impressive. Like, that's more impressive to me than someone who spends 80 hours on a painting, you know. Of course it's gonna look good. You spent 80 hours on it, you know. Yeah, so yeah, I think that's always helped me to like keep the bar as high as I can, you know.

Jesper Conrad: 01:02:24
What what do you do to pass on the the gift? Um, if you meet others who are interested, uh have you taught others in in the art of caricature, or what do you do?

Samuel KingDavis : 01:02:36
Yeah, I have I've done workshops, I have uh online two online classes for clay caricatures and then just drawing caricatures. Um I'm probably too enthusiastic about sharing it. I think I probably have scared some people off because I I know like so much about it, I like overwhelm them, I think. But yeah, anyone who's interested in it, I'm definitely like happy to share with them. Um but I I still haven't found anybody that isn't already doing it that is like really wants to dedicate to it. And that's the tricky thing. I think that definitely most of the artists on the bridge are portrait artists that draw caricatures because people want caricatures. Yeah, and there's nobody up there, maybe aside from myself, that's like formally trained as like specifically for caricature.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:03:29
So yeah, I wish I wish I had more minions and more disciples, but it is also a very good way of learning to have a master to study with.

Jesper Conrad: 01:03:42
Yeah.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:03:43
So if anyone out there would like to study, they should go to Professor, they should download TikTok.

Samuel KingDavis : 01:03:50
Yeah, don't download TikTok unless you have to, not unless you want the Chinese government in your pockets. No.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:03:58
The question is, do we already have that?

Samuel KingDavis : 01:04:01
Yeah, probably, probably.

Jesper Conrad: 01:04:03
That's a different podcast.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:04:04
Yeah, that's different.

Jesper Conrad: 01:04:06
I agree, I agree. We actually also have to Yeah, we we should uh we have uh we are right now we are in a when we record this, we are in a castle in Normandy where there's a world school meetup with a lot of traveling families who meet up.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:04:20
Uh and there will be 50 families in total before.

Jesper Conrad: 01:04:23
So our we don't see our kids all day, we just make sure to make enough food for them.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:04:28
Uh almost a bit more time, but there is a group going to see a movie, and I promise to be there to buy the tickets because I'm the only one who speaks French. Oh, okay.

Jesper Conrad: 01:04:44
Should we just do another like 10 minutes or if you have uh any questions for us before we need to answer?

Samuel KingDavis : 01:04:51
I probably talk too much.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:04:53
Sorry, I should have said trying to be nice. No, I'm I'm happy listening to you.

Jesper Conrad: 01:04:58
That's why we hear I think my can you hear my dog back there? Yeah, yeah, well we love dogs, so that's fine. Maybe he sounds like he has a question. Let me just shut up the door. Hold on. Of course.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:05:13
I think of this reason.

Samuel KingDavis : 01:05:17
I I think that it's like I think there's maybe too many questions. I think I probably have to go to the blog and read more and stuff, but yeah, I guess I'm just interested in like it's been 10 years since you guys have have decided to be nomadic.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:05:33
No, five, five nomadic, ten uh unschooling, but actually twelve unschooling.

Jesper Conrad: 01:05:39
Yeah, I like how you can.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:05:41
We can schedule another podcast.

Jesper Conrad: 01:05:44
Yeah, yeah, actually, because uh sometimes uh people ask, Hey, we don't hear a lot about you, but we are very interested in people, so we like to listen to people. So if you are up for it, we could schedule uh a call in some weeks where you can ask us, then we will. Be your interview guest for our own podcast if that could be fun.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:06:04
Yeah, why not?

Samuel KingDavis : 01:06:05
Yeah, actually, I I stopped the famous When I'm Dead podcast. I just did that during uh COVID, so I just did that for a year. But I'm the same way, I'm really interested in other people's like journeys and what they do. Uh yeah, that that sounds good.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:06:20
Nice to meet again. I'm a little sad to cut it off, but I I have I don't know, 25 children

Cecilie Conrad: 01:06:25
who need a ticket for the movies and want to buy it. So it would be a little difficult.

Jesper Conrad: 01:06:31
No, no, no. So let's do that.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:06:33
Let's do that there before the movie starts.

Jesper Conrad: 01:06:35
But then to make the official goodbye here, then uh if people want to see your work because now they have been listening to a podcast, it's not the tick bar. So where do they go? The the my best recommendation would be travel to Prague uh and meet you, go to the bridge and get a portrait. But besides that, where can they find uh you and see the the work you do?

Samuel KingDavis : 01:07:02
Yeah, probably the best is just Instagram. So it's Instagram and the it's King DavisArt, and it's King Davis with an S, not King David, King Davis with yeah, and you'll find me like that. And that's my website, and that's my TikTok, and that's everything, just King Davis art. Perfect.

Cecilie Conrad: 01:07:22
Easy.

Jesper Conrad: 01:07:24
Okay, but I will recommend to everybody it really next time you see um uh a caricature, try to see how much that goes into getting the personality in there. I know for us it has been very interesting to hear, and I I thank you a lot for your time.

Samuel KingDavis : 01:07:39
Yeah, definitely. Thank you so much.